Reevaluating the rules/site

I am the man without a title so I don't really have a horse in this. What I would say is this-decide what you want the site to be and make the rules needed to achieve that.

Just moving ideas around and putting them to screen about what my thoughts on the whole shebang have been recently.

Sites run on new content. No new content, no returning visitors. Monthly deadlines I think were meant to try to ensure new content on a regular basis, but that doesn't seem to be working well for anyone at this point. Serialization is utterly dependent on regular updates, and none of us seem to be coming through on that on a regular basis. Some of us have writing habits that parallel bi-polar traits with periods of intense activity followed by long fallow periods, and the result seems to be a lot of beginnings, a few middles, but rarely ends to stories.

When I was working the indy/self-published circuit the most common advice was don't plan to publish 100 part epics, just try to finish and 8 pager story complete and get it out there first.

The biggest problem I see with a shared universe site and long epics is that it is a shared universe site and you cannot foresee curveballs thrown by other writers or the dropping of other titles that were to have served as a foundation for what you yourself were doing, characters in future planning claimed by someone else before you get to claim them, radically different takes on characters that change the fabric of how a DCU would operate that may invalidate assumptions you were working with on how a DCU would work-what the cosmic landscape of a DCU would be, how magic and supernatural work in a DCU, etc. etc. etc. all of which throw obstacles into the long epics and force changes that may blunt the enthusiasm for the project turning it into a story you didn't set out to tell or have no interest in continuing to tell. All of which makes long term planning difficult and sometimes feel like a lot of wasted time. But then, a lot of people just plain enjoy playing that long game risks and all, so it is what it is. Short of a universe bible everyone has to adhere to or running everything through a central editor for approval, you're not going to eliminate those issues on a site like this, unless you abandon the shard universe aspect, but that is what the draw is for some.

For me, the derailment of stories and the constant jumping through claims hoops are what have diminished my enthusiasm for the shared universe concept, but that's just me, and why I am not doing a continued title. I don't think the concept should be abandoned if that is the central driving idea behind the site. It just may not be for me any longer.

If I were to write something (and I am not sure I even want to write anything at this point, so I am not asking for people to accommodate me) I'd want to do it either anthology style (i.e. the classic standalone done in one stories of the DC mystery or sci-fi titles for instance but in a variety of genres) or Golden Age style where each story is standalone and complete, kind of a casebook style thing were the hero is featured with a conflict, it is resolved all in the same reading. Stories can build on what came before, but it is not so much a serial as a bunch of stories featuring the characters. Again that's me and I am well aware my tastes won't reflect the entirety of our small group, or even a majority (or even anyone but myself).

So all of this is just a long winded (typical for me) way of saying, before you decide what the rules should be, you (we maybe), need to decide what you (or we) want the site to be first and the rules can flow form there. Without a clear vision of what we want the site to be though, the rules would just be a collection of band aids to appease the peccadilloes of our current membership and wouldn't necessarily serve the future growth of the site (if there ever is any).

But again, I am not sure I am inclined to do more than be an interested observer at this point, so y'all need to do what's right for you.

-M

I don't think anyone is suggesting the one shots/anthologies be considered in universe unless it's something that we as a group end up just continuing to tell it with a limited amount of characters. It goes against the main basis of the site with the whole shared universe but we do have to ask ourselves... Do we want a shared universe or some activity however brief to at least keep interest going? I love the shared universe but we don't currently have the numbers and we're not carrying our weight in keeping it going so why not have a side-board with shorts? Maybe it'll inspire someone. Maybe it'll be something someone ends up picking up later on when they can. Maybe I continue a story that MRP started, Hawk added to, and it's suddenly become something neat and team building (if understand some of what MRP is saying). It's something to keep the activity up.

And yeah, I understand the reasoning for why we've had a different number for Team vs Solo but the definition is tenuous at best. It's possible to have a team title where the POV is a single character. On the other hand, it's possible to have what is at heart a solo title filled with multiple heroes that may be a team or might not. With us not really being in a place to "share," when we want recurring or guest heroes, there really aren't options so the blanket is one of those things where it ultimately doesn't matter RIGHT NOW but if we should hopefully get activity in the future, that might change.

I agree with MRP on the jumping through hoops on the claims is one of the things I dislike the most. Honestly, I think my best work was before we rebooted the old universe and I had to get creative with my claims and characters. Really felt like I was telling something new. It was fun. It made me think outside of the box but now... I've never really lost the feeling that we can't do certain things because of "hope" and "considering the feelings of others." It's really affected me with Flash because he's the least of the reasons I wanted to tell that story and I feel I have to try my hardest to make him relevant and I'm failing miserably. Same thing with wanting rogues that belong to other mythos. Not as big a deal now but I feel it's still there in the background where I can't go and claim Lex or Doomsday because they belong to Superman.

I see no reason for the restricting of the major heroes in the rules. I can understand in theory why you guys don't want someone to randomly do the entire Justice League but I think a World's Finest, Brave and the Bold, etc... With two or three of the big draws would be something fun to write.

One of the interesting things about Ultimate Marvel to me was when they reinvented and went in entirely different directions or changed characters completely. Sometimes they were a miss but Ultimate Reed is awesome, Miles is a success, I personally liked Jimmy and the concept of Ultimate Cable and Crazy Am I a God? Thor. I want to be able to do that.

Excuse some of the rambling in this post. Or well, excuse most of it. I should be sleeping but I'm not.

The issue we run into most often in the shared universe is some people want more traditional takes and others prefer more ultimization. The two groups almost always exist and lead to a less cohesive universe.

One idea we have thrown around in the past is giving each writer their own Earth and allowing them to build the universe however they want. The main issue in that is the DC Universe is far too vast for one writer to handle alone.

The goal has always been to allow as much creative freedom as possible, but that;s led people into difficult spots in the past due to their takes being a combination of bad and too different. I'm not going to throw around examples, but most everyone has an idea of who I am referring to.

We try to be fast and loose with the claims when it makes sense, but our desire is always to expand which means protecting properties as best we can. So the real question is do you want a creative playground for the 4-5 of us or do you want to see the site grow?

I'm fully okay with the idea of doing one-shots or minis out of continuity if anyone came to me with a pitch. Hell even if Mrp did his idea of slowly developing a universe I would be willing to figure out the logistics of it. I'm interested in tailoring the site to everyone's needs and maybe a break from our traditional structure is what it needs. But if you are interested in doing something "different" pm me and we will figure out how best to present it.

Another idea I was throwing around was maybe doing something like Earth-1 and Earth-2. One Earth for more traditional takes and then the other for ultimization to run wild. Even opens the door for potential crossovers down the road.

For the Sake of Clarity: Would Ultimate Earth 2/Multiversity require claims?

Defeats the purpose of it if it does (that is if we're creating it as a venue for anyone to write anything/testing grounds). If not, them I'm totally A-Okay with that sort of concept. As for the idea of Earth 1 VS Earth 2 specifically being Traditional VS Ultimatization... Hell Nah. If someone claims characters then that's their deal and they can do whatever they like. From my understanding and from what I was specifically told by officials when I showed up here, continuity/shared qualities are already the least of the worries should someone drop a title since I'm the continuity king and that was a worry over me. It doesn't matter unless we make it matter and that looks like it is a step in the direction of "It has to be this way no matter what."

If someone was to make a Vampire/Red Rain Batman as the official Ultimate Batman then I'm fine with that. They claimed the characters. They can do what they like. A Vampire Batman can work and hell, it is in a way an "Ultimate Batman." If they want to make it take place in near future... Not as cool with it being part of "Ultimate Earth" since that fits in with the Multiversity concept (though I believe near future can be allowed within reason of a story so long as the present is the key). If they want to make an issue be poetry then meh. That's reaching. I apologize for specifically using the example but it's honestly the best example of things we've dealt with in the past for a wide range of issues.

TL:DR
Ultimate Earth (1/Prime): This is the bread and butter of the site. This is what we hope takes off. This is where things work under the impression they are shared as a whole and are not writing in a universal vacuum. This is the sandbox. May not like the takes but we should respect it after a fashion (and should be respected that we don't like it instead of censored because THAT'S MEAN!).

Multiveristy: This isn't the sandbox. This isn't needing to be claimed. Things can be shared and can carry over but it's more just a free place to write so that we can have new content no matter what.

We're talking a lot about growing the site. Is that something we want?

If so, then we're opening it up to new writers, which means new levels of variable quality, etc. Are we actually going to open it up, because, let's face it...not many people Google Ultimate DC, and if they do...well, would they come here?

Agreed that if they did find their way here, there's not a huge amount of content to bring them forward, but activity doesn't need to be content based, and equally, having a clear direction for US won't turn them away.

We cannot please everyone, if they don't want to write here, then they won't. If we have a clear style, and a clear objective there's less concern because people will see VERY early on what we're about. This airy fairy "We could do this, and that, and this also" is only going to muddy the waters for us, as writers, before we even consider bringing in new people - so why don't we sort ourselves out first before we consider hypothetical situations.

1) What do WE want. We're the "Founders". How do we want this structured - Lemme say, I like Ultimate but Ultimate for Marvel won't work for DC. Marvel has and always will be focused on character, and their flaws. DC was always about the concept and the mythos. Marvel updated their characters by making their origins relevant for "today" (Early 00's). The Mythology and Concepts of DC...they need to be updated, not necessarily the characters.

if Superman landed in Kansa in the 50's, he'd be very different to a Superman who landed in Kansas in 00's, probably because he'd be a narcissistic dick.

2) How do we go about building our world and making sure we're all consistent and do what we want to do? There's the sandbox element, how often do we actually NEED to hit continuity points with other writers. Say, do we all take concepts? Do we take Eras? Do we take Universes?

A friend has a site that deals on character concepts only. So, if you write Green Lantern you write ONLY Green Lantern and related concepts (Red Lanterns, etc.) you draw in from existing continuity that sort of business - so, GL can have Omega Men, L.E.G.I.O.N.

Similarly we can work on a broader conceptual level - Magic, Science, Time Travel, Gods etc.

Or, we do our own DC worlds, but...you know, there's a lot of room to hang ourselves there. I like Sandbox, but hate the Claims structure thing - I've seen it from other writers, they see someone talk about an interest in another character, and then swoop in and steal that character. Jordan does it all the time. I did it to Buck with Firestorm (Sorry dude...)

I think before we start throwing out examples and details on how to do things, we need a higher level understanding of what we want. Do we want sandbox, or not? Options can be decided later. Do we want Ultimate, or normal continuity?

Sorry to get down on things, because I know this sort of discussion is important, but...details drag away from what the goal of the site is? I've been a member of many sites who have loose goals "Write fic based on normal continuity" to "We're picking up directly after 52, and completing our own continuation". So...what do we want to do?

Are we focused on growing the site, and the story second, or writing the stories we want, and growing a site from those seeds?

I think, and I don't want to be the only one, but I know what the site to be. I know I am not a "Founder" as it were, but, defo a reinvention of the DC universe. Whether we can do that from packages and blend into one, I don't know, but...yeah. I stand by the title I have now.