|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 17, 2015 0:55:08 GMT -5
First issue is up. I didn't sit on it long so that the site would have some activity. First issue is almost completely action with a pinch of introspection. I'm not trying to be mysterious here and as more issues get posted, I'll admit to the inspiration. Contrary to appearances, this is not meant to be some sort of alternate fanfic to the TV Show. I'll be using a lot of the concepts from it because they're pretty good at making Oliver/Green Arrow different from Bruce Wayne/Batman (which is funny because I'm influenced by Batman concepts as well) at least in theory if not execution. I personally always saw giving Ollie a family as the one thing that does not make him Batman with a bow. He's not alone, he's not an orphan, he didn't vow vengeance while kneeling in his parent's blood. This is a man who went through hell but came back to find he had people who loved him and what not. If you saw my other topic, yes... There is mysticism/magic to what Oliver does. Day 2 will likely cover some of the mechanics of it. This is an origin story that starts in the middle/end. With every Day that passes for Year End, I should hopefully be revealing more of what he has done in the past year and why he's doing it. I apologize before hand because Thea is intended to be a horrible character throughout Year End and possibly beyond (a majority of the time at least). Sorry... You have a rich teenage girl who has basically been allowed to run wild... Well, you get a spoiled brat. The Three Secret Files will be updated after issues. Right now, the Rogues and Team Arrow have some pretty basic info. I'll work up some sort of official way of filing them later. You get some pictures to help your imagination and names. |
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 18, 2015 20:06:22 GMT -5
I went ahead and posted Issue 2. It's actually longer than the "extra sized #1" but I blame it on the various characters and setting I had to introduce with it. It doesn't do much to continue the "black cloth" plot line because I say so. Really, that's about it. I mean... maaaaaaybe it does in ways that you'll only discover in the future but right now I have still avoided saying the "League of Shadows." Not much action I'm afraid. I hope the dark humor is appreciated. Arrow #3 - Night 1: The Hierophant Pt2 will be chalk full of it. Nudity too! At least there is nudity in my current outline. For hints as to who the Hierophant is... I suggest not thinking about the obvious choices. If my flow keeps going, Night 1 will be up soon. If not, I'll be working on the profiles. Edit: I edited Team Arrow under Shadows of Star City to show the current working format on how I'll be doing my secret files. It's basically stats and abilities (every entry will also include first appearance) currently. Eventually I will fill out profiles for the characters but that'll only happen after certain plot points have passed and most likely will be constantly evolving in the case of the protagonists and the supporting cast. Edit #2: I had one of the "I hate when you refer to yourself in third person" gags but I can't remember how it went. |
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 20, 2015 22:26:22 GMT -5
Triple post. No edits added onto one this time.
Added pictures to all the Starling Citizens that appeared in Issue 2 except for Hall. Also added two Queen Consolidated employees that haven't been seen yet but have been mentioned (I just got in the zone). Bertinelli Family was added to Bottom of the Quiver too.
No info just pictures.
|
|
|
|
Post by hawksmoor on Feb 22, 2015 16:19:23 GMT -5
So, (quiet around here, huh?) here's the review of Arrow #1 &, I suppose, #2.
So, #1 - Ultimate Setup? I see that "The Hood" has been around for a while, and we get an introduction to what Starling City is like. Lots of Mob stuff, it seems, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. Mob works for ground level chaps, but as you've spoken out about, and we've discussed, there's a level of mysticism revealed here which works in so far as intrigue, without actually being an irritating omission.
So, yes, introduction of the villains of the piece, and taking out another villain(?). Lots of foreshadowing.
Would liked to have seen a bit more of Ollie as something other than professional bad ass and brooder, but, you know, that comes later I am sure. You're setting up the black on black, Shadow Clan, stuff pretty nicely as well.
I'm not going to have time to review issue 2, but yes, I will return to it. It's a good start, I'd like more Ollie and such, but I imagine that will come in time.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 22, 2015 19:18:32 GMT -5
Don't worry. You'll get more than enough of your Ollie fix in day/night 1. And it turns out I lied about issue 3. It's still mostly Oliver being Oliver until the last thousand words. Gonna try to keep the nudity though. I'll respond to specific things at some point when I am not on the phone trying to do it
|
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 23, 2015 8:56:46 GMT -5
I haven't really done a proper origin story in some time. I think the last one I did was probably the very first title I did on UDCU with The Spoilers. All my others start with established characters and somewhere near the middle. Even Ultimate Haven wasn't really an origin story. With Arrow, I'm starting from scratch even if he's been on the job for around a year. He hasn't really run into too many rogues just yet. Year End will be the start of it or rather what happens after Year End and going into Year Two is when the freaks start to play. For now, he's taken care of the base mobs/gangs and in that wake rose Brick. During End Year, you'll see another Crime Boss rise (I hint of it in issue 2 and that might anger some) and there will be some fun involving Star City's underworld circa Days 4-6.
I'm messing around with the mysticism going bad and going creative in Issue 3. My hope is to explain it on Day 2 since that's when Team Arrow (can I call them Team Arrow when it's just two dudes?) is going to get serious about the threat now that they know it's there. Kinda have to since the Shadow they face that day is THE master of the art. Only a single other member of the League (that I don't have claimed yet) is better in the signature techniques.
The black on black for the League of Shadows was inspired by a random discworld family crest though it doesn't do what I try to portray. There are varied shades of black just like there are of shadows and the night. I like to picture that in the days when they were more feudal, the League wore the cloth across their faces or arms and the such. Now it might be tucked into their belt just as a sign. I'm toying with the idea that they leave the cloth behind on certain assignments as an unspoken "we were here."
It's still called Star City. If I messed up and called it Starling somewhere, that's my bad. While I prefer Starling City, I wanted to remain true to the comics. Starling is used as an adjective to describe the city and her people though. Star Citizens/Stories sends a different sort of message in my mind.
No time to review issue 2 huh? I swear... I SWEAR... One day I'll get an issue that's under 4000 words. It's the stupid settings and set up of the characters that is making my word count huge. I should be flat out done with all that by Night 2.
|
|
|
|
Post by hawksmoor on Feb 24, 2015 16:01:55 GMT -5
Sorry, it's not that issue was too long, more that I left it too late in the day to read it - things came up, and by the time I sat down and review #1, it was 9pm, which, when you get up at 5am for work...is bed time.
#2 tomorrow!
|
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 24, 2015 23:52:07 GMT -5
No worries. When I'm not in a lull of work I don't usually have this much free time to spend in the first place so I understand... Still I'm gonna try to move it in the 3000-4000 range (not counting my recap and characters) unless it remains just the two of us (cue second greatest Will Smith song ever) then I'm okay with the 4000-5000 range for when the issues start to become spread apart.
On a note from above... Anyone who reads this title now or in the future... Can I get some help on the recap and characters? Not sure what my problem is but you'll notice when I post Issue 3 that my tenses are all over the place and I have no consistent format.
And on an note from that above paragraph, issue 3 will be posted late tonight/early morning without a doubt. With the month being short I might not get my goal of 4 in one month but I'm definitely gonna stop pussy footing around on writing the climax of Day/Night 1 starting in one hour.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 25, 2015 4:50:25 GMT -5
First things first... Since I'm a damn dirty liar, I edited out that "Extra Sized" from the first issue. This issue is the longest* so far but it also has the most going on. I think I delivered on the emotional and action spectrum. Also think I managed to justify WHY Ollie decided to do what he did even if I didn't explain it as well as I like. Since this is technically the First Day, maybe I get a pass in not explaining in full detail what Year End means for Oliver and why he's being targeted. I do obviously hint of it in that final scene and his speech with The Heirophant. On the note of that final scene... How bout that twist? Should have seen it coming if you paid attention to the previous issue. Just wait until it happens. I know The Heirophant's (and the reasoning for these tarot names will be revealed "tommorow") cloak/hood/mantle wasn't ever fully explained. Neither were the fireflies but there's reason for that and honestly you don't need a paragraph about Oliver finding a lantern with a timer or something. I will say that everyone should be strangely happy with his defeat and how touching it was in the little bit of it you saw. My original outline was far more brutal by necessity and involved the blunt sword not working efficiently. And yes! I kept the promise about nudity! It might not have been whose you expected/wanted. It might have been strangely awkward and/or sweet... But it's there. Heirophant was added to the League of Shadows. Image even helped to kinda inspire his final scene. *When all the extra stuff is taken off, I'm under the point where I'd have started cutting out scenes and paragraphs... Just barely but I'm under it.Edit: It was oddly fitting but as I wrote the final scene, A Thousand Years came on my playlist twice. One with lyrics. The other was a piano version. |
|
|
|
Post by buck on Feb 27, 2015 1:40:47 GMT -5
Just going to live react as I read the first issue.
The opening scene was pretty well done. I think you could have cranked up the connection between father and daughter a bit more to make a powerful final scene ever more powerful. Just the fact his thoughts didn't flash to memories of his daughter or things he wouldn't get to do with her. Though I do like the implications of sins of the past coming back in the future.
A meeting of the minds in the second scene. You do an excellent job bringing together two vastly different crime bosses and making them come across as equals. I look forward to seeing what the future has in store for them, but I am sure the deadly smile of China White is a Chekov's Gun.
The third scene was yawn inducing. Like really it served very little purpose other then to establish that this is going to fall close to the Arrowverse and to make Ollie a bit too broody.
Yeah, no clue who he killed in the hostage scene. Lightning maybe? Scene was decent nothing spectacular, but showed Ollie is still not a seasoned vet of a vigilante.
Honestly, this issue read a lot like an episode of Arrow. Which isn't really a bad thing, but it really seemed like you didn't take any chances in this issue to differentiate yourself from it. Look forward though to reading day one later.
|
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Feb 27, 2015 6:22:13 GMT -5
I have no clue how I forgot about his daughter. I'll be sure to use that mistake to my advantage. You might be right considering I don't even know what the third scene is off the top of my head. Yeah. Lightning. Hard to do the reveals for the no names he faces but I have about three places during Day 2 and 3 to reveal the details. Hopefully I can make the first one fit since it'll also reveal a bit of Ollie's history but it might be cut for length. *shrug* Dunno. Haven't even started.
I don't start taking chances until really the third issue if I have to guess when everything starts to be revealed and it becomes something "else."
|
|
|
|
Post by hawksmoor on Mar 1, 2015 6:45:22 GMT -5
#2 - Yeah, so we have a family for Ollie, but he's a very serious chap. Slightly different to the somewhat swash buckling hero from the Pre-Nu52 world. Not exactly Spider-man, but at the same time, not Batman with Arrows. I think you're, I guess?, following a bit closer to the TV Arrow, in that he is established business man, with a family of rich people around him, and another life of "Heroing"
Is Detective Lance's Partner supposed to be a Strawman? There is zero information about Partner except they are the same age as Helena, and a lady.
Lots of exposition about the company, (Q-Core?) and Oliver not being very good at business. Isn't this the same sort of thing as Batman? I always thought Superheroes would be great at business. I do some BA at work, and it's all about finding the most efficient way of solving a problem. That pretty much falls into the wet dream land of Superheroes.
So, there's a "Ghost on the line" and with Ollie's Psuedo-Mystical business occurring he thought smashing it and then ignoring it was the best practice? I dunno, that doesn't sit quite right. If he was of this Shadow-Borne thing, then surely something creepy like that would feature in his mind as "This might be more than just something weird". They'd know his identity - so going to a really crowded party? That sits weird - Doesn't quite make sense, you know?
#3 - Still avoiding the issue - still feels weird. I know they have a party to get to and all that, but ignoring something that critical seems kind of forced. Like it's going to come back and bite them this issue, and that's being deliberately ignored so they can scold each other on "Oh, we should have done something at the time?!"
Clinc, hob-knobing. Check. Check. Girls who find Oliver attractive because of blue eyes. Check. Then we come across this sentence. I've read it...three? four times?
"They wanted the next high or they very openly to the point everyone else deluded themselves into not seeing it drank whatever sort of alcohol was present at these sorts of gatherings."
I don't know what this is trying to say at all.
I can't help but feel the explaination of Tommy and Oliver's friendship was totally unneeded. We get from their discussion they're familiar, perhaps even best friends. I think most exposition via the dialogue would have been better than the info dump of "Here's another passage of explanations." They were kind of rife in #2, but I thought it was a case of writing yourself into the story a bit, dropping history nuggets etc. I think that this sort of information works much better via dialogue instead of narrative info-dump.
Massive pedant section: I am assuming the Firefly bit is near water/marshland.
Also, sorry, this is something...he was saying things that were the truest, deepest things he's ever told her? That's really something that is true and deep? Stargazing? Perhaps that is the inbuilt British allergy to anything a bit emotional or whatever, but that just seemed really very awkward.
Yeah, it escalated quickly didn't it?
So, it was a bit confusing, how we went from the Stargazing, to Drug dealer stabbing and then fighting with an member of the Demon's Head, and I had written a paragraph on how I was confused on how it was all holding together, but, yes, about halfway through the fight it clicked in. The Fireflies are what holds it all together.
THAT is good story telling - and without explanation - the reader had to put it together themselves, and, admittedly I might have done it a bit late, but I was pleased to went with this route, instead of the aforementioned info dumps we got earlier. Much more engaging and interesting - we're part of the story when we're working things out, instead of being a passive ride along.
Oh, and ending on a naughty bit.
So, to sum - Two good issues, with a few odd bits and pieces in there that threw me about in expectations. #3 was better than #2, and the action was pacey and well written. Less info dumps please!
|
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Mar 1, 2015 8:44:06 GMT -5
The info dumps are over! For the most part. Star City has been set up (which Buck didn't like... I went and checked what the scene was!!!), the majority of the supporting cast has been set up, relationships are all more than enough padded it seems... It's all downhill from here. Just wait until what happens on Day 3 which is a one and done. Yes, Hall is a strawman (for now) and I'm happy for it cause "I done messed things up" at the time of writing the issue/scene and was thinking of the wrong character so I'm happy I didn't take the time to describe her. *scratches head*I thought I had Ollie be surprisingly good at business. I seem to recall going for that approach. People were genuinely surprised he turned a floundering branch of Queen Consolidated into one of their best earners. I'll have to go reread that bit. Edit: Yup...I stressed that he was actually good at it and some members of the board weren't happy that he was. You make the mistake (or I make the mistake by not explaining entirely) in assuming that he sat there like Bruce Wayne did in something like TDK with his legs up and eyes closed. Not at all. Oliver was fully paying attention. He wasn't sleeping or acting like a slob. The idea here is for him to try to meditate to catch up on lost sleep but he never once hesitated before he was asked a question or caught a trigger word. Yeah, if they looked at him, they might have caught him appearing zoned out but the moment they tried to entrap him, he snapped "awake." You were saved from a massive board meeting and snappy dialogue because *I* don't know about business to the extent that Oliver does.You actually caught onto something that is I think satirized (I believe that's the right word) in the next issue when the comms come into play again. Ollie and Diggle don't talk about it because it falls outside of their skillset yet you do have Diggle on high alert later on. Is it because of the comms? The assassins? You don't know Dig, man! There's also "just because I didn't fully explain it yet doesn't mean they didn't do something" aspect there which I know is contrary to my massive info dumps but you saw in action with the fireflies. There's been hint as early as Issue 1 that there are other members of Team Arrow, people who can handle that while Oliver and Diggle get down, get down. I mean with my lots of exposition, I could have thrown a line in there about it but the issue to go with the first part is about John and Oliver. A theme I didn't pull off as well as I should but was there with Diggle having his back at the end. Since it's about Diggle and Oliver, Oliver and his family, and Oliver and Al-nasl... It is the seed of another plotline that didn't need to be bothered in this issue. Oliver already knows the people who are coming after him know who he is and where he lives. There are people he has who knows technology better than he does. All he and Diggle can do at this point is be vigilant and try not to let his cover be blown. TL:DR of that ^^^ Paragraph: You caught onto a thread that is addressed. Just "not now" and will obviously bite him. But hey. Go Rookie Superhero! Ouch. All on its own, that sentence is horrible. I might try to see if I can phrase it better by the time someone else reads it. Basically it's saying that "rich people get away with shit and don't give a damn if their kids are drinking whatever is being served at these things. They don't see it because it doesn't matter to them." It's a minor use of a recurring theme in the title. People see only what they want to see. High Class/Famous people don't want to see their sons/daughters as the next Lindsay Lohan. I shall see what I can do with your advice over the Tommy situation in the future. Given (IIRC) that they continue talking though I don't say about what, I could probably have pulled off what you suggested. You fell into the very understandable trap of me explaining a lot of things to minute detail to me leaving a trail of breadcrumbs for you to figure out on your own and how they compete against one another. Yes. You caught on. Late but you did. Oliver didn't pay attention or even give his sister the time of day until the fireflies stopped. That's when he spun her around, got all *feelings* with her, and we have the pay off for that conversation (besides him giving his sister an emotional connection with something to look at and think of him if the bit with fireflies goes wrong and he ends up dead) in the next scene where you find out just WHY he knows that one little, pathetic star in one little pathetic constellation is called "Al-sahm." As a little warning... There is no "obvious" fallout to why Oliver rushed back and left a dead body on his lawn (besides the you know... he's injured majorly) at the start of the next issue but you can safely assume that a certain detective at the party did notice his daughter and Oliver were missing at the same time of a gunshot and the naughty bits might not have gone unnoticed. My final opinion on your review: It really helps. The conflicting styles of me not saying everything on certain subjects while giving you massive info dumps is a drastic contrast that can really affect the reader's reading. Hopefully it'll be less of problem in the future because I've got a majority of my dumps out of the way (that's a low joke even for me... I'm sorry). I'm currently working on a semi-meta scene in the next issue that addresses some of your complaints (so this helps me a bit on that) and goes on to "not-explain" it. Some things just aren't said because there's no need for them. You KNOW. At this point you know Ollie is part of the League and for some reason they have placed him under this trial. (Oliver knows why but I don't have to reveal all the specific details until I reach a suitable spot in the story). You now know another character is part of them too. And you all know he wasn't on a damn island for five years!* * Actually had a thought about this and a way it could be used to introduce a certain journalist in my possible second title last night before bed. |
|
|
|
Post by Wachter on Mar 18, 2015 20:11:31 GMT -5
Haha. I called Oliver's name. Go me.
|
|
