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Post by hawksmoor on Apr 15, 2015 2:11:05 GMT -5
Hey Buck, sorry for the delay in my reply on this - I thought I had!
Sorry about the formatting. I'll go back and fix that, again, I thought I had, so, forgive me in that respect.
Sorry you found the Diablo/Barda thing a bit creepy. I was trying to go for ageless love, but, it might not have worked as well as I'd hoped.
Glad you like Traci, because I really enjoy writing her. She's a great character and has always been one of my favourites.
--ALSO-- I've just finished pissing around with the Neon Bible Sub-Board, so the characters are broken into sections according to affiliation, and there is, at present, very small amounts of supplemental material to go with the Third World characters.
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Post by The MRP! on Apr 18, 2015 22:34:15 GMT -5
Just read #2 so still catching up. The quick reaction-this one read better than #1-it felt like a more cohesive narrative than a series of quick cut vignettes that may have been pieces of a whole but there was not enough established yet in #1 to hang them on so they felt more like fragments than any kind of whole. This one had a spine on which the different pieces could flow from and anchored by Tracy, so it felt like a single whole.
The editor in me noticed a few types and wrong words-instance instead of instant at one point and a somehow became somewho, etc. but nothing major and nothing a clean up proofread wouldn't have solved.
My one criticism-they say the devil is in the details, but sometimes the details are the devil. Comics are usually a visual medium and adapting that to prose can be difficult at times. We try to provide visuals, painting images with words trying to forge that impression of things in the reader's mind. Sometimes it works well, and sometimes not. You spent a fair amount of time trying to paint the picture of Zee, Lori and Traci in the opening scene, especially with the details of their hairstyles, while the rest of the installment and the lead in from the previous issue's climax were things that were trying to build tension and momentum, and seemed to be building for something that needed a fast paced narrative to sustain it. The momentum is lost though, when you stop to linger on details like this and the mundane nature of it diffuses any tension that was built up, so when the antagonist (Violence) shows up, it feels out of place because the pace and tone had slowed to linger on these mundane details. It ended up being a speed bump on the narrative's track. The problem is not so much in the details or giving them, but the time and place that you do. Quiet details like that need to be introduced in quiet moments in the story where the reader's attention can stop and linger and dally in the moment, not in a sequence that requires a fast pace to keep the tension and conflict you spent an issue building going into the coming scene. It's not a time where you want the reader to stop and take a breath, because that negates everything you were building for in the fast paced cuts of #1, and brings it to a screeching halt and then you try to ratchet it up again and instead you have created inertia that has to be overcome. The reader is now focused on small mundane things and wants to learn more and you rip that away when you ratchet up the tension and conflict again. It makes it unclear what your goal was for the scene and sequence-what was its purpose? What should the reader be expecting You build it, bring it to screeching halt and just when the reader is settling in for the quiet moment, you wrench them out of it again.
Understanding the peaks and valleys of storytelling, when to ratchet things up, when to slow them down, how to build momentum and avoid throwing speed bumps in, etc. is one of the harder parts of writing fiction to get a handle on. Beat breakdowns help a writer see the structure and what is needed before the gloss of an actual script is written making it harder to see. The scene can be beautiful, and ingeniously done, but if it doesn't fit into the flow of the story before and after it, it doesn't serve the story itself well, and that's how that scene felt for me with those mundane details added in at that time. The conference call was absolutely necessary to the story and needed to be there, but it needed to fit into the flow of what happened before and after better, and not have those minute details included there to slow it down and derail the overall flow of the story. The details did help the character visuals, but for me it was the wrong time and wrong place to include them.
-M
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Post by hawksmoor on Apr 19, 2015 7:03:34 GMT -5
Thanks for the review of #2 MRP, I appreciate it.
I get what you're saying about pacing, it's something I struggle with from time to time. I think I was wanting to build up the tension and pacing in this issue, from a slow moment, up to the big confrontation and beyond - however, as you quite rightly point out, this isn't a story in isolation, this is part two of a continuing story, and I had built #1 up to be a growing entity in terms of stakes and pace, and then shot it down again with #2. I can't say I haven't done anything similar to that with #3 & #4, but I'll attempt to keep my details, and the points along the way, consistent with the pacing.
Like you say, it's a bit tough, and sometimes you get lost in the drive to the moment, forgetting that the drive there has some humps in it, and it needs to be as smooth as possible for the reader.
Thanks agaian!
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Post by The MRP! on May 25, 2015 22:58:03 GMT -5
So still catching up on Sentinels and I want to be caught up before I dive into the new WW series, so forgive the delays of my reviews. Read #3 this evening.
First the nits to be picked-lots of proofreading/editing errors...form lines like there's lots of achieve so we must hurry to me thinking Barda's hair is a demon child Teen Titan because she has Capitalized Raven locks to ing endings to words that do not belong and on and on. All would be fixed with another good and thorough proofreading.
I am also disturbed and still wondering exactly how flexible or lacking in skeletal structure one has to be to firmly grip your own shoulder blades, which are in the middle of your back...
but aside from those nits...
I like the mythology you are building, however...this was essentially an entire issue of talking heads. If it were a comic it would have been 19 pages of talking heads with 2 or 3 panels of action on the last page. Now a great artist like JH Williams or P.Craig Russell or Steranko or Kaluta or Kirby might be able to do something with the visuals in the exposition of the previous worlds to keep the reader captivated, but as prose, it's a large chunk of talking head exposition that has little drama or tension to keep one focused or moving through, then doesn't really have a payoff a at the end.
It might be an important piece of building the larger whole, but as an individual piece on its own, it just doesn't stand up very well. And when doing something serialized you have to look at each piece as it's own entity as well as it's place in the larger tapestry.
There's a lot of information but nothing really happens, they are fleeing at the beginning, talk a lot, then flee some more. That's it. Those are the beats of the issue. As interesting as the mythology is, as intricate as it is, it reads more like an essay in world building mythology than a story.
So while I am still grooving to the overall series, this segment kind of fell on its face for me in terms of structure and pacing.
Sorry for the harshness. Again, I like the ideas, it's the execution that needed improvement, however, an idea doesn't become a story until it's properly executed.
-M
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Post by The MRP! on May 27, 2015 3:25:44 GMT -5
So read #4. Much better, still talky, but more happens to actually move the story forward rather than exposition to fill in back story. Good intro of Beryl.
The nits to pick-
diction error right off the bat-a secretion is a discharge form a body or a cell, not something covert-Elias might have smuggled the body or secretly removed it from the hospital, but he did not move it from inside his own body to outside his body-at least I hope not-which is what the word you used said he did.
The Sentinels line as a scene breaker threw me for a loop the first time-I had no idea what it was doing there, thought it was a title sequence after the intial prologue with Ivo and Elias until I got to the second one. Kind of interrupted the reading experience.
And the ugly American nitpick-I had to google a metric conversion to know exactly how hot 40 degrees Celsius was (to us 40 is just above freezing, but to you it's 104 F
So again, like the characters, the direction the story is moving, and the worldbuilding, but the last few chapter have been a little too talky (3 in particular) which wreaks havoc with pacing in a serialized story unless the installments are much longer to give them some meat and momentum storywise.
-M
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Post by hawksmoor on May 30, 2015 16:00:42 GMT -5
So, MRP, thanks for both of your reviews - greatly appreciated.
Fair enough about the editing - random capitalisation is a real thing of mine. It is normally a point at which I stop typing and start thinking, so, I will be much more vigilant with that next time.
"I am also disturbed and still wondering exactly how flexible or lacking in skeletal structure one has to be to firmly grip your own shoulder blades, which are in the middle of your back..." - I've just tested this. I can do it. What does that say about me?
I get what you mean about there being little action, and that we're looking at this as a serialized piece of fiction, so it needs to stand on its own. I agree, and sort of disagree with you there. Not to be difficult, because yes, you're the reader, so what you read and what you don't...that needs to stand on its own, but we're dealing with prose so a little more time can be taken with the talking heads. You're right, this isn't comics...so I don't necessarily see why we should always be constrained by the same conventions? This is a serialized piece of prose, sometimes in novels, there are chapters which are exposition, and that's OK.
That all said, yeah...I know, exposition is boring and it needs more...punchy punchy, runny runny.
Again, I like the ideas, it's the execution that needed improvement, however, an idea doesn't become a story until it's properly executed. I think this is the best statement for my writing as a whole. The ideas...people like, the execution needs work, and with things like world building and exposition? That's where I fall down. I am impatient and I want things set up immediately, and that doesn't fly too well. It needs to be subtle and it needs to build and build. It's, as you say, structure and execution. Ideas are great but you make them a reality? I sometimes (often?) fall short.
Glad you enjoyed #4 a bit more.
Secretion? Sorry, that's a case of me convincing myself that it makes sense, and is the word I wanted it to be.
Scene breakers will die as of next issue.
As far as metric conversion goes? I am tempted to say "tough" but it is set in America. Unless it is Traci or Beryl talking, then all bets are off, man! I agree, i need to either go with "Length" in terms of talky-talky or add in something to speed the story along. Some actually...what do you call it...plot? Yeah. No, I agree, I think I've been too in love with the idea of it all, rather than the writing of it all. So, I'll keep plugging away at this...hopefully the next issue will be better.
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Post by The MRP! on May 30, 2015 23:04:35 GMT -5
So, MRP, thanks for both of your reviews - greatly appreciated. Fair enough about the editing - random capitalisation is a real thing of mine. It is normally a point at which I stop typing and start thinking, so, I will be much more vigilant with that next time. "I am also disturbed and still wondering exactly how flexible or lacking in skeletal structure one has to be to firmly grip your own shoulder blades, which are in the middle of your back..." - I've just tested this. I can do it. What does that say about me? I get what you mean about there being little action, and that we're looking at this as a serialized piece of fiction, so it needs to stand on its own. I agree, and sort of disagree with you there. Not to be difficult, because yes, you're the reader, so what you read and what you don't...that needs to stand on its own, but we're dealing with prose so a little more time can be taken with the talking heads. You're right, this isn't comics...so I don't necessarily see why we should always be constrained by the same conventions? This is a serialized piece of prose, sometimes in novels, there are chapters which are exposition, and that's OK. That all said, yeah...I know, exposition is boring and it needs more...punchy punchy, runny runny. Again, I like the ideas, it's the execution that needed improvement, however, an idea doesn't become a story until it's properly executed. I think this is the best statement for my writing as a whole. The ideas...people like, the execution needs work, and with things like world building and exposition? That's where I fall down. I am impatient and I want things set up immediately, and that doesn't fly too well. It needs to be subtle and it needs to build and build. It's, as you say, structure and execution. Ideas are great but you make them a reality? I sometimes (often?) fall short. Glad you enjoyed #4 a bit more. Secretion? Sorry, that's a case of me convincing myself that it makes sense, and is the word I wanted it to be. Scene breakers will die as of next issue. As far as metric conversion goes? I am tempted to say "tough" but it is set in America. Unless it is Traci or Beryl talking, then all bets are off, man! I agree, i need to either go with "Length" in terms of talky-talky or add in something to speed the story along. Some actually...what do you call it...plot? Yeah. No, I agree, I think I've been too in love with the idea of it all, rather than the writing of it all. So, I'll keep plugging away at this...hopefully the next issue will be better. The one thing I will say with the pacing as you bring up novels. Yes novels can have whole chapters of talking or exposition, but the whole novel is there and I as the reader can control how much or how little I choose to read in a single sitting, I can gloss over a chatty chapter to get more substance in the next because it's all there in front of me. When it's serialized, I can only read what is there in front of me so that has to be enough to hold my attention or I might not come back for the next installment. The control is not in the reader's hand because all the material for the entire story is not in front of them. You the writer own that control and it is an added level of craft to use it well. Just as there are differences in comics and prose and movies and television, there is a difference in writing prose for a novel and prose for a serialized piece. In serialization, each piece is a thing on its own and has to stand up as such even if it eventually make sup a piece of a larger whole because you are not delivering the whole to the reader at once-the whole of what you are delivering is the chapter and so it in and of itself has to be a satisfying experience for the reader. Now there are things like cliffhangers and such that are fair game because it is serialized and not a short story, but with serialization the pieces take on more importance than just being a piece of the whole. The sum is still greater than the parts, but each part has to be able to deliver something to the reader that will make the piece satisfying on its own. It is another piece of the challenge writing serialized fiction. The result may be novel length when all is said and done, and resemble a novel in overall structure, but a novel is of one, while serialized is of many making one. It's a subtle, but very important difference. -M |
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